MINUTES
Town of Vienna
Planning Board (PB) - Regular Meeting June 20, 2024

Call to order: Chairman Calvin Collins called the meeting to order at 7:01 pm with a quorum present.

Attendance:

Board Members: Calvin Collins, Mike Piper, Orrin MacMurray, Bill Shaughnessy, Dave Gigon, and Martha Link. There is one vacancy on the board.

Others: Secretary Kathy Pavelock, Liaison Mike Davis, several applicants, and residents.

Codes/Zoning Officer (C/ZO) Reay Walker. was unable to attend.

Minutes Approval:

A motion was made by Mike Piper, seconded by Bill Shaughnessy to approve the May 16, 2024 regular meeting minutes. No discussion. Poll Vote:

Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Abstain Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried.

Correspondence: Secretary Pavelock summarized the correspondence on this meeting’s agenda:

• Prepared, coordinated and distributed a letter of determination for W. Koenig applications.

• Submitted legal notices for the public hearings scheduled for June 20.

• Received and distributed to the board written public comments related to SUP2024-02.

• Received and distributed to the board a letter from the Codes Enforcement Officer.

  While awaiting the scheduled time for the first public hearing, Chairman Collins explained the process for conduct at the public hearing (sign-in’ 3 minutes allowed for each speaker as called upon from the list).

  Orrin MacMurray explained that he has no new updates for the Zoning Law recommended changes due to the board’s full agendas for the last few meetings.

  Supervisor Davis explained that he would be liaison for June, July, and August.

  Public Hearings:

  7:10 PM SUB2024-02 Thomas Winn for ARH, LLC; 163.000-1-39.1; 6-lot subdivision on Maple Flats Rd. 150 Acres with 5 lots containing 3+ acres each with l lot retaining the remainder of the 150 acres.

  Orrin MacMurray made a motion to open the public hearing for SUB2024-02. Seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye

  Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:12.

  There were no public comments. Mike Piper made a motion to close the public hearing for SUB2024-02. Seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye

  Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:13.

  Unfinished Business:

  SUB2024-02 Thomas Winn for ARH, LLC; Tom provided updated plats explaining that the proposed road will be a separate lot. This is still a 6-lot subdivision with 4 building lots, the road, and the remaining property. The private road will be named “Riverstone Road.” Tom has talked with the Highway Superintendent regarding the specifications for the private road in the event it becomes a town road. The proposed road will remain private and provide utility access, fire/rescue access, and access to the other 5 other parcels. Mr. Winn plans to build 4 houses this year.

  Orrin MacMurray made a motion approve SUB2024-02, seconded by Mike Piper with the conditions:

  • Lots 1, 2, 3, and 4 will be provided access via lot 5 (Riverstone Road) with deed convenance.

  • Any access roads must meet town specifications.

  • 911 addressing for each lot is required.

  • All required permits shall be obtained from the Codes/Zoning Enforcement Officer.

  • Any changes in plans shall be brought before the planning board before implementation. Town of Vienna Planning Board Meeting Minutes – June 20, 2024 Page 1

    No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried.

    The updated plats did not have the required signature blocks. Mr. Winn will get the plats updated. Secretary Pavelock will prepare the letter of determination. Plats will be signed when they are available.

    Public Hearings:

    7:20 PM SUB2024-05 Darrin Ketchum; 201.000-2-16.12; Zone RR-1/WR; 2-lot subdivision at 3806 Oswego Rd, 23.51 Acres.

    Mike Piper made a motion to open the public hearing for SUB2024-05. Seconded Dave Gigon. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye

    Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:25.

    There were no public comments. Orrin MacMurray made a motion to close the public hearing for SUB2024-05. Seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. No discussion. Poll Vote:

    Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:26.

    Unfinished Business:

    SUB2024-05 Darrin Ketchum; 201.000-2-16.12; Zone RR-1/WR; 2-lot subdivision at 3806 Oswego Rd, 23.51 Acres. The planning board reviewed the final plats. Bill Shaughnessy made a motion to approve SUB2024-05. Seconded by Martha Link. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye

    Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried.

    The surveyor will file the plats with the county. Signatures were made on the final plats.

    Public Hearings:

    7:30 PM SUB2024-06 Darec Liebel;235.006-3-7; Zone SR; 2-lot subdivision at 1528 NYS Route 49; 2 acres. Previously approved SUB2021-03 on 7/15/2021. Plats were never filed.

    Dave Gigon made a motion to open the public hearing for SUB2024-06. Seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye

    Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:32. There were no public comments.

    Bill Shaughnessy made a motion to close the public hearing for SUB2024-06. Seconded by Orrin MacMurray. No discussion. Poll Vote:Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye

    Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:33.

    Unfinished Business:

    SUB2024-06 Darec Liebel;235.006-3-7; Zone SR; 2-lot subdivision at 1528 NYS Route 49; 2 acres. Previously approved SUB2021-03 on 7/15/2021. Plats were never filed. The board reviewed the final plats. The planning board reviewed the final plats. Orrin MacMurray made a motion to approve SUB2024-06. Seconded by Mike Piper. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye

    Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried.

    Derec Liebel will file the plats with the county. Signatures were made on the final plats.

    Public Hearings:

    7:30 PM SUP2024-02 Dale Race (Hogan Engineering); 7954 Lewis Road; 201.000-1-41.3; Zone RR-1; Provide (6) cabins and (7) RV spaces covering 3.7 acres with public water and subsurface wastewater disposal.

    Mike Piper made a motion to open the public hearing for SUP2024-02. Seconded by Martha Link. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye

    Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:42.

    
    

    Town of Vienna Planning Board Meeting Minutes – June 20, 2024 Page 2

    Public comments:

    Amanda Sasenbury – She owns the property next door to the proposed campground to the north. Ms. Sasenbury provided written comments (attached) and summarized some of her concerns including safety of young children in the neighborhood, unknown people in the area, trespassing, does not agree with the town Comprehensive Plan regarding rural nature and agriculture, lack of campground security (not protecting residents), decrease in land values, answers to questions about ATVs, Snowmobiles, and hunting.

    Tammy Crawford – She owns the property next door to the proposed campground to the south (her property is surrounded by Mr. Race’s property on three sides. Ms. Crawford is concerned about safety of her 5-year-old child, trespassing, guests of the proposed campground can see into her residence, general security concerns since there is no cell service at this location.

    Walter Morgan – owns the property across the street (west) from the proposed campground. Mr. Morgan submitted written comments (attached).

    Steven Greving – owns the property adjoining (south and east) of the property for the proposed campground. Mr. Greving submitted written comments (attached).

    Bill Shaughnessy made a motion to close the public hearing for SUP2024-02. Seconded by Martha Link. No discussion. Poll Vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye

    Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 7:59.

    Unfinished Business:

    SUP2024-02 Dale Race (Hogan Engineering); 7954 Lewis Road; 201.000-1-41.3; Zone RR-1; Provide (6) cabins and (7) RV spaces covering 3.7 acres with public water and subsurface wastewater disposal. The planning board thanked everyone for the comments and explained that the planning board is an administrative board and not a judicial board (if an applicant demonstrates compliance with the Zoning Law, the planning board is responsible to evaluate this compliance as a basis for approving the special use permit.

    Tim Hogen explained the grading plan. They are working with the Highway Superintendent and DEC. Mr. Hogen has discussed the security concerns with Mr. Race. Mr. Race provided a response. A copy is in the planning board project file. They are willing to work with Crawford on the line-of-sight issues. There will be no ATVs or snowmobiles. The only hunter will be Dale Race. The planning board provided the following concerns:

  • The site plan needs to address the recreation area specifics.

  • Logging in the pas makes it unclear on drainage/run-off. The property to the south appears to be impacted. Mr. Hogen is looking into possible discharge to the east.

  • Need more information on the ravine including topography.

  • In reviewing the SWPPP, 1.8 acres will be disturbed and will require stormwater permits.

  • The board would like to see the hydrology analysis showing no significant runoff.

  • The current plan shows the utility buildings do not meet the Zoning Law setbacks.

  • Need to address security/screening. Trees are proposed. Need south side screening which will also deter trespassing.

  • A campground office is a requirement. Mr. Hogan will check on this.

  • A planning board member reviewed the site from a neighboring property and is concerned that the stakes at the top of the ravine do not meet the setback of 25’. Another member believes the ravine bottom is 50’ to the campsites.

  • The stream at the bottom of the ravine is unclassified according to Mr. Hogen.

The board has 62 days to take final action (approve or deny) after the public hearing (8/21/2024 is 62 days). The board and applicant can mutually agree to extend the final action date with justification. The board would like time to review the comments. Mr. Hogen will move forward based on comments.

SUP2023-09 Broadway Group (Carson Styles); New business and construct 9,100 sf building at corner of Routes 49/13. 2380, 2381, 2379, 2385 NYS Route 49; 217.000-2-24,25,26,27.

Zone Commercial. SUB2024-04 Merge all properties and subdivide into 2 lots.

Town of Vienna Planning Board Meeting Minutes – June 20, 2024 Page 3

Mr. Styles provided revised plans including lighting, SWPPP and SEQR. One copy of a 5/22/2024 letter from DOT was provided to Orrin MacMurray. He did not get approval from DG on improving aesthetics (not in the budget). Orrin will review the drainage described in the SWPPP.

Several issues were identified on the FEAF part 1, which Mr. Styles address. He will also send a copy of the letter from the SHPO. The board completed FEAF part 2 and 3.

Mr. Styles will send via US mail and electronically all updated architectural drawings.

Mike Piper made a motion to declare the application essentially complete, take lead agency, declare a negative environmental impact, and to schedule a public hearing for SUP2023- 09/SUB2024-04 for July 18 at 7:20 pm. Seconded by Martha Link. No discussion. Poll vote:

Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried

New Business:

SUB2024-07 Lauren/Rosle Tallman; 217.000-2-20.5/217.000-2-20.4; Zone C; 2-lot subdivision at 2448 and 2460 NYS Route 49. Combination minor subdivision and re-allotment. 3 Lots affected. Mr. Tallman explained that their mother owned a large lot with a house on Route 49. The house will be sectioned as 1 lot, the remaining land split into 2 lots with the most easterly lot being annexed to the existing Lauren Tallman lot. The board reviewed the SEQR.

Dave Gigon made a motion to declare the application essentially complete, take lead agency, declare a negative environmental impact, and to schedule a public hearing for SUP2024-07 for July 18, 2024 at 7:10 pm. Seconded by Mike Piper. No discussion. Poll vote: Orrin MacMurray – Aye

Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried

Public Comments:

• Amanda Sasenbury voiced additional concerns about the proposed cabins/RV campground on Lewis Road including parking, traffic impact, maintenance, she believes stream is a class C.

• Tammy Crawford voiced additional concerns about the proposed cabins/RV campground on Lewis Road including accuracy of property lines. Believes that a survey needs to be done to verify.

  Next Meeting: July 18, 2024. Agenda items are due to the secretary by July 11, 2024.

  Orrin MacMurray made a motion to go into Executive Session for discussion on personnel items.

  Seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. No discussion. Poll vote:

  Orrin MacMurray – Aye Bill Shaughnessy – Aye Martha Link – Aye Dave Gigon – Aye Calvin Collins – Aye Mike Piper – Aye

  Vacancy – n/a Motion Carried at 10:00 pm.

  Orrin MacMurray made a motion to return from Executive Session. Seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. No

  discussion. Poll vote:	Orrin MacMurray – Aye	Bill Shaughnessy – Aye
  Martha Link – Aye	Dave Gigon – Aye	Calvin Collins – Aye
  Mike Piper – Aye	Vacancy – n/a	Motion Carried at 10:19 pm.

  Orrin MacMurray made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Bill Shaughnessy. Motion carried 10:20 pm.

  Minutes prepared by: Kathy Pavelock

  Planning Board Secretary

  
  

  Town of Vienna Planning Board Meeting Minutes – June 20, 2024 Page 4

  
  

  Concerns:

  
  

  The proposed Deer Ridge Cabins campground goes against the Town of Vienna's Comprehensive Plan, specifically the following goals:

  #2: Preserve Vienna's rural character, especially agriculture and forestry uses. By adding this campground we're ruining Vienna's rural character, destroying the forest, threatening agriculture, and reducing the quality of residential life for the immediate residents. (Town of Vienna Comprehensive Plan 2022, p.18-20).

  #3: Protect the integrity of Vienna's residential neighborhoods, and the property values of Vienna's homeowners. Having a campground with no site security and no recreation other than "hiking" is asking for trouble. We are not looking out for the residents and their safety. Property values in the area will decrease, making it hard for residents to sell their existing homes (see attached letter from Walter Morgan) and decreasing the value of existing homes should the owners decide to sell. (Town of Vienna Comprehensive Plan 2022, p.22).

  #6: To promote sustainable development in the Town of Vienna, that is, development that meets the needs of the present with compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. By adding the campground we're compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. This land could have been used for a single-family home; another person or family to enjoy the peace and quiet and beauty this area of Vienna has to offer. A family that could raise their children in the country, enjoy nature and the outdoors, and feel safe' letting their children play outside and explore.

  • Security

    • No security onsite at all times. Who will enforce rules? What are the rules?

    • Will there be a gate to keep unwelcome people out?

    • Will there be quiet hours? Who will enforce?

    • Will there be an office? Where? Usually it's when you first pull in to make sure everyone checks in and you're aware of who is in the campground.

    • What if there are campers that pose a threat to the neighbors? How will that be handled?

    • Ms. Crawfords's house is visible (and close) from ALL aspects ofthe campground (camping and hiking), what if there is a sex offender at the campground, we will not know. She could be sunbathing in her backyard; her Syr old daughter could be playing on the swing set, or even just in the yard. Her windows can be visibly seen from the proposed cabins and RV sites.

      • What will keep them from walking across her lawn or kids coming to pet her

        dogs?

    • Ms. Sasenbury and her children ride ATVs, dirt bikes, and horses on the property. They also hike and fish there. These temporary campers put them at risk: Who knows what ki.nd of people may be around.

• o Where will visitors park? On property on 49 and walking will increase the number of strangers walking on our roads and in our community.

• There is no recreation offered for campers. See Appendix A for what area campgrounds offer. We don't want this campground to be the one that has nothing to offer and no security and that's where the troubled folks end up.

• Will campers be allowed to hunt? If so, how will they be kept on Mr. Race's property and how will we know they have a hunting license and know gun safety?

• Trespassing

  • Will ATVs and/or snowmobiles be allowed? Again, if so, how we they be kept on Mr.

    Race's property? Ms. Sasenbury has developed trails on her property they could easily access and would be apt to for ease of use.

  • How will they keep campers from wandering onto neighboring properties?

  • Ms. Sasenbury and her children (ages 11 and 13) use the trails on her property that border the campground and "hiking trails". How will she know they are safe when enjoying recreation on their own property?

  • Ms. Sasenbury has developed trails on her property that will be enticing to campers for hiking

  • Utility shed is in setback area; how will you keep campers out of setback area? No picnic areas, fire rings, etc.

  • Ms. Lyke has animals on her property (goats, poultry, dogs). What's to keep them from wandering over there to see them?

• Traffic

  • Our road is already in rough shape, increased traffic and heavier vehicles will only make it deteriorate more costing the town more money to fix and maintain. Transportation is already the largest expenditure in the town at $1.7M in 2019 (according to the Comprehensive Pla n).

  • Traffic may be backed up to 49 at times; how will this be handled? Unsightly for neighbors.

• Misc.

  • Has the property been surveyed since Mr. Race purchased it? Are all lines/boundaries correct? A map of the ENTIRE property would be helpful so you could see the area it encompasses and the effect it has on neighboring properties (see Appendix B).

  • Will there be a dumpster and garbage removal? How will he keep wildlife out of it?

  • Emergency services - no cell phone reception

  • Is there additional revenue for the town from the campground? Is the tax rate different for the campground acreage vs the vacant acreage vs if it was waterfront (question raised after looking at the campgrounds on the Oneida County Tax Roll)?

,-------

APPENDIX A

I encourage you to go to the websites of the campgrounds in the area and look at the pictures. They are involved with their campers, offer !1:lany different activities for them, and make the place look enjoyable with all they have to offer and their involvement.

Mayfair Campgrounds {www.mayfaircampg round.com) 3250 Old State Route 49

Blossvale, NY 13308

(55 acres along Fish Creek, which is navigable to Oneida Lake)

• Office when you drive in

• Recreation hall

• Recreation area _{open field for kickball, kids to play, etc.)

• (2-3) playgrounds

• Volleyball

• Beach

• Restrooms/showers/laundry

  
  

  
  

  Treasure Isle RV Park (w ww.t reasureisler vpark. com ) 3132 Haskins Road

  Blossvale, NY 13308

  (1 mile of riverfront and over 40 acres of land for you to swim, fish, relax, and have fun)

• Office/store when you drive in

• Laundry/bathhouse

• Weekend activities

• Playground

• Volleyball

• Baseball

• Basketball

• Horseshoes

• Game room

• Swimming beach

  
  

  
  

  The Landing Campground {www.t helandingcampground.com) 2796 Kellogg Road

  Blossvale, NY 13308

  {Nestled along the shores of Fish Creek)

• Office/store

• Laundry

• Free wi-fi

• Swim beach

• Playground

• Pavilion with activities

• Restrooms/showers

TA-GA-SOKE Campgrounds {w ww.ta-ga-soke.co m) 7820 Higginsville Road

Blossvale, NY 13308

{located on Fish Creek with access to Oneida Lake)

• Horseshoes

• Baseball

• Bocce ball

• Volleyball

• Basketball

• Game room

• Store

• Playground

• Driving range

• Beach/swimming area

Oneida Pines (www.oneidapinesresort.co m) 2045 Mulholland Road

Cleveland, NY 13042

(CNY areas most modern swimming pool at a campground, themed weekends, activities, and more...)

• Office/store

• Showers

• Laundry

• Modern swimming pool

• Horseshoes

• Volleyball

• Playground

• Basketball

• Mini golf

• Private pond

• Hiking

• Recreation hall for games, music, and activities

• Arcade games

• Themed weekends

• Activities (djs, candy bar bingo, etc)

• Live music events

APPENDIX B

C. Lyke

T. Clemens

To the Town of Vienna,

My name is Walter Morgan and I have owned the property at 7939 Lewis Road Blossvale NY for over 50 year-s. 1 want to address-my concerns about the proposed campground on Lewis Road . I have been trying to sell my house for several months and have had people back out of a sale because they are hearing about this campground. It has already decreased the potential sale ofmy house as well as decreasing the current property value.

Our road is a high-density residential area. We have families and neighbors that are familiar with our children and animals. We have school bus stops near this area. Adding' a campground will increase the traffic on our road. This puts our young children and animals at risk. Having campsites with fire pits increases the risk of fire and damage to our properties. The addition of campers puts our security at risk. Our children can play freely in our yards and among neighbors, if there is a campground right by our homes there are-strangers freely roaming around our homes. These are people that can be here one time or multiple times, but they are unknown to us. Will this campground allow four-wheelers? This puts an additional risk to properties having wooded areas like mine. I have many no trespassing signs on my property, but my area can be very enticing to teenagers who may camp because it's a great area to roam and play in. .

Would this camp be open in the winter for snowmobilers? That is another hazard because of hunting season. I do not want to worry about being shot or having my young friends worry about their children being injured.

There is a surplus of campgrounds in the town of Vienna. We do not need one on Lewis Road. The decrease in property value and risk of personal and property damage is too high and it discourages potential buyers from moving into this area.

Walter Morgan

RECEIVED

JUN 1 7 2024

TOWN OF VIENNA TOWN CLERK

,--- -

June 13, 2024

Town of Vienna 2083 State Route 49 North Bay, NY 13123

Dear Board Members:

I own the home and property located at 3330 State Route 49, Blossvale, NY. I purchased this property and put a house there in 2015. I decided to settle in this area after my military career because I liked the rural area and atmosphere. My property on the north side of Route 49 borders the property of Mr. Dale Race, whom is proposing Deer Ridge Cabins, located at 7954 Lewis Road.

I would like to take this time to voice my concerns regarding this proposed campground. As I mentioned above, I settled here because of the rural area. Adding a campground will take away from the rural

aspect, especially on Lewis Road where it is mostly woods on both sides of the road with only a handful of houses on the south end, closest to Route 49. There will be many strangers amongst our community if the proposed campground goes in. These strangers could pose a threat and safety concerns for the

people in these homes and those on the outskirts of this area, especially if the campground does not have security personnel onsite 24/7. In addition, these campers could easily trespass on my property while they are out “hiking”. I have a greenhouse on the north side of my property that borders Mr.

Race’s. I am not able to see that from my house, as my house is on the other side (south side) of Route 49; making it that much more enticing to trespassers. I feel that this campground would also increase the traffic in our area. Lewis Road is traveled by very few, making it a nice area for those that live nearby to walk with their children and dogs, or even ride their horses. The campground traffic, increased people, and noise will create a nuisance for the neighboring community.

There is an abundance of campgrounds in the Town of Vienna, all of which offer many more amenities than the proposed Deer Ridge Cabins. Given the layout of the land and terrain, the possibilities are

limited to campers; not to mention the safety of our already established community with young children and animals being put in jeopardy. The Town of Vienna does not need another campground that will take away from the rural character of Vienna, the reason I enjoy this area so much and decided to call it home.

Thank you for taking the time to read my concerns regarding this proposed campground. Should you have any questions, or if you would like to discuss further, please feel free to contact me at, 845-234- 1128.

Very Respectfully,

Steven J. Greving